God/Jesus - Real or Not?

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God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Cass on September 2nd 2009, 8:21 pm

Do you beleive in God or Jesus?

Why or why not? Smile



I don't beleive in God.
I find it SO hard to believe in things I can't see with my own eyes.... Ummm...
plus www.godisimaginary.com is pretty helpful Very Happy

So, what are your views?
I could rant all day.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Admin/Grover/Fangs on September 2nd 2009, 9:04 pm

Who brought the first humans on Earth... Who made humans... Who made animals.... Who made dinosaurs..... You really don't know.

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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Rapsheba555 on September 2nd 2009, 10:20 pm

I believe God started evolution with the big bang. :P

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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Cass on September 2nd 2009, 10:29 pm

I believe the story of God's form of evolution is a hunk of giant phooey.

I DO believe in the big bang, but I don't think 'God' made it.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by GuardStud08 on September 2nd 2009, 10:31 pm

The Bible:

It is a book. Anyone can write a book and they can put whatever they want on the pages




My 2 cents ;D
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Rapsheba555 on September 2nd 2009, 10:34 pm

True, but look at the big bang process versus creation and you'll find out that they line up perfectly. Lol

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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by GuardStud08 on September 2nd 2009, 10:37 pm

What about Evolution? Do you not believe in it? I mean we have proof that creatures have evolved into other creatures, why can't we have done the same?
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Rapsheba555 on September 2nd 2009, 10:38 pm

I just said I believed in evolution, silly. :P

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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by GuardStud08 on September 2nd 2009, 10:41 pm

Ohh, phail xD
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by ZombieData on September 3rd 2009, 5:13 am

I wish there was. I hope there is... but I know there is probably not a god.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Cass on September 3rd 2009, 8:40 am

I find there is no logical way 'God' could exist.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by GuardStud08 on September 3rd 2009, 5:29 pm

Stolen from MTS


-The earth is younger than we give credit to.
*Comets disintegrate too quickly.
1) The theory of evolution says comets are supposed to be as old as the solar system. Five billion years old, but every time a comet orbits close to the sun, it loses too much material. It couldn't last more than 100,000 years. Most comets have a typical maximum age of about 10,000 years.
*There isn't enough mud on the sea floor.
2) Every year, erosion causes about 25 billion tons of dirt and rock to topple into the ocean. If the evolutionary theory is correct then the ocean would have much more mud than it does on the sea floor. At the rate that the mud is eroding, evidence suggests the earth is less than 12 million years old.
* There isn't enough sodium in the ocean.
3) Each year, rivers, streams and lakes dump over 450 million tons of sodium into the ocean. 27% of the sodium dumped into the ocean actually manages to get back out of it every year. The remainder just sits in the ocean. Supposing the ocean had no sodium in it to start with, the sodium would have had a chance to accumulate in less than 42 million years and a maximum of 62 million years.
*The earth's magnetic field is decaying too quickly.
4) The total amount of energy stored in the earths magnetic field has steadily decreased by a factor of 2.7% over the past 1000 years. At this rate, the magnetic field could not be much more than 10,000 years old.
*Strata are too tightly bent.
5) Strata thousands of feet thick, in mountainous areas, are bent and folded into a hairpin's likeness. The conventional geologic time-scale says these rock formations were deeply buried and solidified for hundreds of millions of years before they were bent, but the folding process happened without cracking, with radii was really small, suggesting that the strata was still wet and unsolidified when the bending occurred, implying that the folding process occurred less than thousands of years after deposition.
*Geologic 'ages' now shorten a few years?
6) a) The Cambrian Sawatch sandstone, supposedly formed over 500 million years ago in the Ute Pass Fault, just west of Colorado Springs. Allegedly, it was still liquified when it reached the surface of the earth, 70 million years ago. Why would it not have solidified in the 430 million years it was still underground? More likely that these two geologic events were less than a couple of hundred years apart.
b) Radiohalo's rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive material. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay. Squashed Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that the Jurassic, Triassic and Eocene formations in Colorado plateau were put there months between one another, rather than millions of years apart of one another, as said of the conventional time scale.
* Not enough 'Stone Age' skeletons.
7) Evolutionary anthropologists say that the 'Stone Age' lasted for a long time, at least 100,000 years, and the population of the Neanderthal and the Cro-magnon man were steadily constant. Between 1-10 million, during that time they buried their dead with artifacts. If this is correct, these men should have buried at least 4 billion bodies. According to the geologic time-scale, bones should last much longer than 100,000 years, suggesting that all of the 'Stone Age' bones would still be around. Only a few thousand have been found, implying that the 'Stone Age' was much shorter than most thought. At tops, maybe a few hundred years.
*Agriculture still hasn't worn off it's 'newness.'
Cool The picture that evolution has painted is that men were hunters and gatherers for 100,000 years during the 'Stone Age' before discovering agriculture less than 10,000 years ago. Yet the archaeological evidence suggests that 'Stone Age' men were as intelligent as we are now. It is improbable that it took over 4 billion 'Stone Age' men to discover something as simple as agriculture. It is more probable to say that men were without agriculture less than a few hundred years after Noah's flood, if at all.
* No history lessons for the common 'Stone Age' man?
9) Evolutionists say that the 'Stone Age' man existed for 100,000 years before beginning to attempt to write things down, about 4000-5000 years ago, but prehistoric man built giant monuments, drew cave paintings and kept records of the moon's phases. Why wait a thousands of years before even trying to write something down?

-Is there real evidence that man descended from apes?
*Are the 'missing links' still missing? Look at some of the most famous discoveries made by scientists below, claiming that these are the 'missing links.'
--Australopithecus-- or 'Lucy' – there are various species of these that have at times proclaimed to be 'human ancestors.' One remains the Australopithecus afarensis, or 'Lucy,' but detailed studies of the inner ear, skulls and bones imply that our friend 'Lucy' and her 'species' were not on their way to becoming human. For example, they may have walked more upright than most apes, like us, but not in a human manor. Australopithecus afarensis very similar to the pygmy chimpanzee.
--Homo sapiens neanderthalensis-- or the Neanderthal man, 150 years ago, the 'Neanderthal' reconstructions were stooped and very much like an 'ape-man.' It has now come to light that the supposedly stooped posture was due to disease and that the 'Neanderthal' is just a variation of common man.
--Ramapithecus-- They were once widely regarded as the ancestor of man, it has been realized that it is merely an extinct type of orangutan.
--Eoanthropus-- The 'Piltdown man' was a hoax based upon a human skull cap and an orangutan's jaw. It was widely publicized as the 'missing link' for over 40 years.
--Hesperopithecus-- The 'Nebraska man' was a single tooth. Now found to be a pigs tooth only found in Paraguay.
--Pithecanthropus-- The 'Java man' is now renamed Homo erectus. See below.
--Sinanthropus-- The 'Peking man' was once presented as another 'missing link,' now classified as a Homo erectus. See below.
--Homo erectus-- Many remains of this type have been found around the world. They are smaller than the average man today, with an appropriately smaller head (and brain). The brain size, however, is within the range of people today and studies of the middle ear have shown us that Homo erectus was just likes you and me. Remains found in the same strata and in close proximity to ordinary humans, showing that they lived together.
--Australopithecus africanus-- This, at one time, was also promoted as the 'missing link.' It is no longer considered to be from the line of apes to humans. It is very ape like.
--Homo habilis-- There is a growing consensus amongst most paleoanthropologists that this category actually includes bits and pieces of other species, such as Australopithecus and Homo erectus. It is therefore an 'invalid taxon,' it never existed.

-Other random excerpts.

Apparent Design:
All life appears to be designed, and evolutionists have failed to adequately explain why. Adaptation to environmental changes, mutations, and natural selection has not validated macroevolution.
Origin of life:
Louis Pasteur disproved spontaneous generation of life. Sir Fred Hoyle and Charles Wickramasinghe stated in their book, Evolution from Space, that “they estimated the probability of forming a single enzyme or protein at random, in a rich ocean of amino acids, was no more than one in 10 to the 20th power.” Next, they calculated the likelihood of forming all of the 2000+ enzymes used in the life forms of earth. This probability was calculated at one in 10 to the 40,000th power. They popularized the following cliché: “belief in the chemical evolution of the first cell from lifeless chemicals is equivalent to believing that a tornado could sweep through a junkyard and form a Boeing 747.”
Development of life and the tree of life:
Evolutionists believe all life developed from the original life that Sir Fred Hoyle said had no chance of occurring. Nevertheless, evolutionists have postulated an evolutionary tree of life showing how the various life forms developed. If their postulate were correct, many transitional life forms would have existed between the ancestor and the descendant’s time. Now, after 150 years of searching for fossils since Darwin, zero transitional fossils have been found of the millions of fossils collected. Confirming this lack of evidence is Gould's oft-quoted words: "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils. . .I wish in no way to impugn the potential validity of gradualism. I wish only to point out that it was never seen in the rocks."
DNA and complexity:
Recent advances in microbiology have shown the incomprehensible complexity of DNA and the living cell. The human DNA molecules are the chromosomes that comprise the human genome. The purpose of the DNA is to specify the information for the human blueprint. Information is separate from the chemicals that are just the media for the information. Only intelligence can generate information. How can we believe that such complicated information could have generated randomly?

New knowledge about the cell is equally incompatible with random origin. A cell is extremely complex and the way it performs its functions is similar to a sophisticated factory. The way DNA is self-repairing, the way RNA works with DNA, and the way proteins are synthesized using RNA templates screams of a Designer.
Dualism/Consciousness:
Scientists have found that the brain and mind are separate entities. Wilder Penfield said, “Through performing surgery on more than a thousand epileptic patients, he encountered concrete evidence that the brain and the mind are actually distinct from each other, although they clearly interact."
Thermodynamics 2nd law:
This law, known as the law of entropy, applies not only to usable energy but equally to organization and things wearing out. The natural flow is from organized to unorganized, complex to random, new to “worn out.” We see this principle in our everyday lives. Energy, applied with intelligence, is necessary to reverse the ever-increasing entropy or randomness of creation.

Question # 24, page 82 of the Bible Answer Book for Students by Hank Hanegraaff, The Bible Answer Man:

How Can We Be Sure That Evolution Is a Myth?

Dr. Luis Bounoure, former director of research at the French National Center for Scientific Research, calls evolution “a fairy tale for grown-ups.” I call it a cruel hoax! In fact, the arguments that support evolutionary theory are incredibly weak.
First, the fossil record is an embarrassment to evolutionists. No verifiable transitions from one kind to another have been found. Charles Darwin had an excuse; in his day, fossil finds were relatively scarce. Today, however, we have plenty of fossils- yet we haven't found even one legitimate transition from one kind to another.
Furthermore, in Darwin's day such complex structures as a human egg were thought to be quite simple- for all practical purposes, little more than a microscopic blob of gelatin. Today, we know that a fertilized human egg is among the most organized, complex structures in the universe. In an age of scientific enlightenment, it's incredible that people are willing to maintain that something so complex happened by chance. Like an egg or the human eye, the universe is a masterpiece of precision and design that couldn't of happened by chance.
Finally, while chance is a blow to the theory of evolution, the laws of science are a bullet to its head. The basic laws of science, including the laws of effects and their causes-energy conservation and entropy- strengthen the creation model for origins and weaken the evolutionary hypothesis. While I would fight for a person's right to have faith in science fiction, we must resist evolutionists who attempt to brainwash people into thinking that evolution is science.

Psalm 19:1-4
“The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour fourth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
There is no speech or language
Where their voice is not heard.
Their voice goes out into all the earth,
Their words to the ends of the world.”




Question # 25, page 84 of the Bible Answer Book for Students by Hank Hanegraaff, The Bible Answer Man:

Did Darwin Have a Deathbed Conversion?

In order to demonstrate the falseness of evolution, Bible-believing Christians for more than a century have passed on the story of Charles Darwin's deathbed conversion. Evolutionists have attempted to counter them by loudly protesting that Darwin died believing that Christianity was a fraud and that chance was the creator.
In response, it should first be noted that whether Darwin did or didn't renounce evolution doesn't speak to the issue of whether evolution is true or false. Maybe Darwin renounced evolution because he was senile or had taken a mind-altering drug. He may have even just hedged his bets with some “eternal fire insurance.”
As followers of the One who proclaimed Himself to be not only “the way” and “the life” but also “the truth” (John 14:6), we have not set the standard for the evolutionist, not vice versa. James Fegan was correct when he described the Darwin legend as “an illustration of the recklessness with which the Protestant Controversialists seek to support any cause they are advocating.”
In The Darwin Legend, James Moore painstakingly documents the fact that there is no substantial evidence that Darwin ever repented, but there is abundant evidence that he consistently held to his evolutionary paradigm.

Exodus 20:16
“You shall not give false testimony
against your neighbor.”


Sources used:
http://www.allaboutcreation.org/evidence-against-evolution-faq.htm
http://www.christiananswers.net/
Bible Answer Book for Students by Hank Hanegraaff, The Bible Answer Man


I'm sure there's more, but ths is all I feel like posting right now.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Cass on September 3rd 2009, 5:34 pm

..Prove God is real. Smile

I believe Jesus was a real man. But not the son of God. <-- A bit off the current convo buuuttttt...

Sorry. I get pissed off during God conversations.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by WhiteWaterWood on September 3rd 2009, 8:52 pm

1) Wrong. Given the amount of empty space there is in the universe vs. the probability that the comet had even come close to something with a gravitational field before is very slim.
2) You remember Pangaea right? Just because something erodes into the ocean does not mean it will stay in the ocean. Tectonic plates are constantly in motion, pushing up dirt and earth. Volcanoes also are capable of making huge landmasses. That's how the Hawaiian islands were formed.
3) The earth's magnetic field is not decaying. At all.
4) Nope. Also not true.
5 and a bit of 6) Underneath the earth's crust it was molten. Of course it couldn't have solidified!
7) So what, we should be seeing tons of dinosaur bones as well? Bones in caskets and mumified might last that long (maybe), but not so regular bodies. While IMPRINTS of bones can last that long, bones do not last very long at all and imprints are easily swept away.
Also, people back then didn't even know how to WRITE, let alone make tools. Just because they were as 'smart' as we were did not mean they were nearly as knowledgeable. Raise a child alone in the wild and I can say without a doubt they will not even THINK of the idea of growing plants. 'Seeds' were probably a new discovery for them.
9) Same as above.
Okay, let's get this straight. Man did NOT descend from the apes and the idea that they did is stupid. They do, however, share a common ancestor. The rest of your 'evidence' is... well, sickening. If you had bothered to do your research, not only would you find half of this was false information, but you would realize that although the theory of evolution is no where near complete the idea that these things were all hoaxes or a product of overactive imaginations is ridiculous.


Given that your 'evidence' is peppered with quotes from the bible, it doesn't take a scholar to see that the author was driven by an obviously biased agenda and in his narrow minded-ness, failed to look at actual facts or make any sort of convincing arguments. None of that is remotely based in science and most of them have answers so simple even someone like me (who hasn't even gotten a high school education) can refute them is laughable. Is this really a 'competing theory to evolution' or a preacher's biased rant against science?

I think the answer to that is clear.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by WhiteWaterWood on September 3rd 2009, 8:56 pm

One edit to my last post: The earth's magnetic field actually is being altered. It does decay, but it also reverses and grows stronger. Even that is suspect, and some scientists believe it is moving around and not actually changing strength at all.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Rapsheba555 on September 3rd 2009, 9:27 pm

the current estimate is that the poles are due for a magnetic flip sometime in the next century.

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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Cass on September 7th 2009, 12:00 am

*has heard nufink about this...*
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Rikachu on September 7th 2009, 12:13 am

Cass wrote:..Prove God is real. Smile

I believe Jesus was a real man. But not the son of God. <-- A bit off the current convo buuuttttt...

Sorry. I get pissed off during God conversations.

Prove he's not.

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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Cass on September 7th 2009, 12:16 am

*rolls eyes*
Prove he IS.

www.godisimaginary.com
^---Mah proof is awl right there baby.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Rikachu on September 7th 2009, 2:50 am

You call that proof?
You can't believe everything you read, Cass.

EDIT: Don't say I'm a hypocrite, either, because I -don't- believe -everything- the bible says.

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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Liz on September 7th 2009, 5:55 am

My two cents:

I don't necessarily believe there IS a god, but I -do- believe that there is something there. I wouldn't necessarily pray to it everyday, or even pray like hell on my death-bed.

Jesus, I also believe, was just an ordinary man. Laws of physics, whatever the hell you want to call it, come into the equation. There has been -no- proof of any other person to be able to walk on water, bring LONG deceased people back to life, any of that jazz. If it hasn't been able to be proved since, how the hell would Jesus be able to do it?

And an extra penny for your trouble:
Religion is just there to divide the masses. It leads to conflict. Get over it, people, seriously. People are people, whether they're Christian, Muslim, whatever.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by ZombieData on September 7th 2009, 12:08 pm

GuardStud08 wrote:
--Homo erectus-- Many remains of this type have been found around the world. They are smaller than the average man today, with an appropriately smaller head (and brain). The brain size, however, is within the range of people today and studies of the middle ear have shown us that Homo erectus was just likes you and me. Remains found in the same strata and in close proximity to ordinary humans, showing that they lived together..


BWAHAHAHHAAH

Lol
Homo erectus.


hehehe.

I'm so immature!
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Cass on September 7th 2009, 1:45 pm

*throws a piece of lettuce at Sayde* BOOO!!!
jk o.O

I'm done here.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Vampire_of_Death on September 7th 2009, 2:32 pm

I not sure, as no one could be. But, I believe that there was once a Jesus, but he was not the son of God. I believe him to have either been a con-artist or someone really exagerated. I also believe there was once a God. He started everything with the Big Bang and the course of the creation of the Earth follows the Theory of Evolution.

If there is a God still in existance, I believe that he has angels or co-gods or what ever you want to call them that are god of certain things. Such as God of lightning or of water, much like the Greeks believed with Zeus.

If there is a God as he is represented in the bible, he is an ass. Harsh, but true. And he come the speak about hunger and suffering. I think that if he was as all powerful and merciful as they say, why is there so much suffering. I understand the whole free will thing, but why let milions of children die every year due to hunger or abusive parents or murdered do to predators. Children, according to the Bible, are born without sin, but they are still punished.

Honestly, I be;ieve that there is no God. I believe that death is the end, you just die and your body rots. I would love to convince myself otherwise, but I have really found no evidence other than "Have Faith". I am the kind of person that doesnt believe in it until I have seen proof.

Believe whatever you need to believe to make your life easier, this belief may sound harsh, but I have come to accept it and that is why I do whatever I want (within reason) because I know that I could die any day and if I do, there is a high possibility that there will be no after life.
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Re: God/Jesus - Real or Not?

Post by Rikachu on September 7th 2009, 3:52 pm

Just think though: Would reason would there be for a god to create life, then intercept every time something goes bad and make it good? Real life is -not- The Sims.

EDIT: I would also like to add, what kind of God would he be if he controlled your entire life? Like I said above there would be no reason for life if everything we did was controlled by him.

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